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Value of coins with post-production defects

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:42 am
by Lightw4re
Percentage of the value of a coin over the same coin without defects (same date, year, variety and grade).
  • Cleaned: 79,25%
  • Polished: 81,86%
  • Scratch(es): 89,51%
  • Bent: 41,69%
  • Lacquered: 62,63%
  • Corrosion: 73,62%
  • Rim damage: 71,23%
  • PVC Contamination: n.d.
  • Rust: n.d.
  • Mark(s): 82,53%

Source : Sample (65%) of certified and circulating canadian coins sold on Ebay between 2010 and 2015.
Coins sold with more than one defects aren't included.

Re: Value of coins with post-production defects

Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:19 pm
by Bill in Burl
I don't know where you got that info Lightwire, but I vehemently disagree and I think that almost are pie-in-the-sky or I WISH I could get those prices. People take most of your posts as the true honest fact and these are made up or extrapolated off Ebay data where verbiage means nothing, but photos or having a coin "in hand" tells the whole story. Your "source" is so open to interpretation (was the damage in remarks, or the title or the description or just someone's determination that the fault was actually there). You should remove the post as it is very misleading and exceedingly inaccurate.

Electronically gathered data like that bears no semblance to reality. How bad are the scratches/damage/corrosion/surface? Almost all data gathered from Ebay via computer relies solely on the TITLE of the auction, not the photo or description, let alone the accuracy of the listing. If it's taken off Ebay, then they don't allow ICCS or CCCS certification grades to be listed in the title, hence would not show in what was gathered. A generalistic term like corrosion or scratch means nothing in "words" ... a photo has to show it. The information in your post reminds me the so-called "numismatic" guides and books put out by the Marketing Manager at Ebay, where all data gathered depends specifically on what the TITLE of the auction is and disregards photos or anything else. Those same books are advertised right here on this coin site and also bear no semblance to reality when talking about populations, scarcities or values ... they DO offer a long list of the different things offered for sale by Ebay.

One of the items in the list that I have the most problem with (and misleading) is the 62% for lacquered coins. 90% of all MS-63 and above 19th century large cents that are red or red-brown were lacquered at some point in their collectible life because that was the only way to keep them red. A very short dip in acetone and the lacquer is gone and you have a bright and shiney undergraded coin ready for TPG. Likewise with corrosion, which could be a light PVC green scum, build-up hard scum, dry flakey gree-white corrosion, or buried-coin corrosion. A single-word description in your table doesn't cut it.

I think that members of the site here would get entirely the wrong (and inaccurate) idea of what to offer for a coin when buying or what to hope for a coin when selling. I think it best to remove both your post and mine.

Re: Value of coins with post-production defects

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:15 am
by Lightw4re
These are averages. You are right, It's not a good scale for all dates/denominations and it depends on the degree of each defect. But these averages still stand. Data was gathered by a human, not a computer. The pictures and description on the certificates were used, not the title of the auction.

Thank you for letting me/us to clarify some details. I never wanted to say that every cleaned coin, for example, should be bought at 80% of the same coin without defect.

Re: Value of coins with post-production defects

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:55 pm
by Bill in Burl
Thank you for the response and thank you for the clarification ... I really hate for newbies (or experienced collectors) to be led astray by anything on the various websites and the "list" that you posted can easily lead someone down the primrose path. I don't know who the "human" was who collected the data, because the only way that I know the Ebay info can be gleaned is a computerized search. Without eyeballs seeing something, you can't describe the nuances that you see on a coin and the description on the cert or the title of the auction leave open much to interpretation. As I said before in my post, it reminds me of the person who has authored guides who is also the Marketing Manager for Ebay and pulls data off their listings. Probably over 90% of all coins on Ebay are not valuable enough to even justify the cost of certification, so producing stats that either require or don't require their inclusion leads to extremely misleading data. Each TPG has different grading standards and operating guidelines for their certifications. ICCS is a "technical" grader where surface luster, most cleanings, "preservations" or pre-cuastic corrosion aren't mentioned .. only the wear of the design detail matters. PCGS is hard on coppers once "brown" enters the discussion and NGC has it's own parameters. Ebay allows some TPG's and others are persona non grata so you get apples and oranges comparisons.

Thanks again. I only wish that more people visited this site.

Re: Value of coins with post-production defects

Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:57 pm
by henrysmedford
Bill in Burl wrote: I only wish that more people visited this site.