Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

General discussions on the canadian coins.
everycountrycoins
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 1:38 am

Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

Postby everycountrycoins » Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:35 am

Hey Canadian coin people,

I was just looking at my 2012 base metal 2012 Canada proof set. As you may know, the quarter in this set is supposed to be composed of nickel (as are the 5, 10, and 50 cent coins). They are all appropriately magnetic except for the 25 cent piece. Does anybody know why this might be? At the very least, can any of you confirm this observation?

Thanks in advance,

Bruce

henrysmedford
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

Postby henrysmedford » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:37 am

everycountrycoins wrote:Hey Canadian coin people,

I was just looking at my 2012 base metal 2012 Canada proof set. As you may know, the quarter in this set is supposed to be composed of nickel (as are the 5, 10, and 50 cent coins). They are all appropriately magnetic except for the 25 cent piece. Does anybody know why this might be? At the very least, can any of you confirm this observation?

Thanks in advance,

Bruce

Should be made of mostly steel--

see-- http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/learn/25-cents-5300010#25_1


Technical specifications

1908 - 1910
Composition: 92.5% silver, 7.5% copper
Weight (g): 5.81
Diameter (mm): 23.62
Thickness (mm): n/a

1910 - 1919
Composition: 92.5% silver, 7.5% copper
Weight (g): 5.83
Diameter (mm): 23.62
Thickness (mm): n/a

1920 - 1952
Composition: 80% silver, 20% copper
Weight (g): 5.83
Diameter (mm): 23.62
Thickness (mm): n/a

1953 - 1967
Composition: 80%silver, 20% copper
Weight (g): 5.83
Diameter (mm): 23.88
Thickness (mm): n/a

1967 - 1968
Composition: 50% silver, 50% copper
Weight (g): 5.05
Diameter (mm): 23.88
Thickness (mm): n/a

1968 - 1977
Composition: 99.9% nickel
Weight (g): 5.05
Diameter (mm): 23.88
Thickness (mm): 1.6

1978 - 1999
Composition: 99.9% nickel
Weight (g): 5.05
Diameter (mm): 23.88
Thickness (mm): 1.58

2000 - date
Composition: 94% steel, 3.8% copper, 2.2% nickel plating
Weight (g): 4.4
Diameter (mm): 23.88
Thickness (mm): 1.58

henrysmedford
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

Postby henrysmedford » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:44 am

It could be a wrong planchet as that your mint makes coins for countries other than Canada. See http://www.georgemanzcoins.com/errors/canadian.html


And
http://www.coinscan.com/for/foreign.html


You might weigh it. Look at this coin made at your mint the same year. Same size Non-magnetic .

http://www.coinscan.com/for/nic.html

everycountrycoins
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 1:38 am

Re: Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

Postby everycountrycoins » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:46 pm

The compositions that you referred to are the circulation issues. The proof issues often have different compositions. The RCM specifications on the CoA indicate that it is Nickel. Your second idea might be on the right track, though. I am not going to remove a proof coin from the plastic case, though.

henrysmedford
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

Postby henrysmedford » Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:11 pm

everycountrycoins wrote:The compositions that you referred to are the circulation issues. The proof issues often have different compositions. The RCM specifications on the CoA indicate that it is Nickel. Your second idea might be on the right track, though. I am not going to remove a proof coin from the plastic case, though.

Have you tried using a stronger magnet to see if that still is not magnetics through the case.

everycountrycoins
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 1:38 am

Re: Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

Postby everycountrycoins » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:00 pm

No, but the attraction for even the puny dime is quite strong. I feel nothing at all as I pass it over the surface of the quarter. It simply does not appear to be magnetic.

henrysmedford
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

Postby henrysmedford » Mon Feb 29, 2016 9:04 pm

I emailed George Manz who is an expert on Canadian coins and asked.

Do you have any thoughts on this coin viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6771 it is not mine but I thought it might be a wrong planchet coin.


Thanks Joe Henry


And got this back--


Hi Joe

I also think that it is a wrong planchet.

George Manz
George Manz Coins
P.O. Box 3626
Regina, SK, Canada S4P 3L7
george@georgemanzcoins.com
http://georgemanzcoins.com
(306)352-2337


And then asked--

If it was yours would you break the set open. Also what would this coin be worth.


And got this--

Hi Joe

I would leave the set as is. But you pretty much need to put a magnet on the coin to prove to someone that it is non-magnetic.

everycountrycoins
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 1:38 am

Re: Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

Postby everycountrycoins » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:35 am

Thanks, Joe. I'm pretty sure that I have seen George's name before. Even if it is a non-nickel planchet, it's virtually impossible to know the composition of the planchet that was used without removing the coin from the case. I'm probably at the end of the information road for this coin. I'll just make a special note about it in my records.

Bruce

henrysmedford
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

Postby henrysmedford » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:37 am

everycountrycoins wrote:Thanks, Joe. I'm pretty sure that I have seen George's name before. Even if it is a non-nickel planchet, it's virtually impossible to know the composition of the planchet that was used without removing the coin from the case. I'm probably at the end of the information road for this coin. I'll just make a special note about it in my records.

Bruce


You could find some one with a XRF gun to test it and still leave it in its case. https://www.bruker.com/products/x-ray-diffraction-and-elemental-analysis/handheld-xrf/applications/scrap-metal-sorting/xrf-scrap-metal.html

everycountrycoins
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 1:38 am

Re: Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

Postby everycountrycoins » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:07 am

In fact I did reach out to a geoscientist. He said that if it is in a 1/16” or 1/32” solid plastic “window," then it is virtually impossible to get X-rays in and/or X-rays out. Also, "Assuming it is “plastic” and of some thickness more than a few microns or tens of microns, I doubt that any ‘normal’ XRF device could be used to determine the elemental composition."

I guess the specific answer as to why a magnet doesn't attract it will remain a mystery....

Bill in Burl
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:41 am
Location: Golden Horseshoe, ONT

Re: Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

Postby Bill in Burl » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:38 am

An XRF will give a virtual error-free reading of any coin in a mylar holder (like a 2 X 2) or mint plio packaging. The % of error depends upon which of the alloy metals it is reading at the time. A 1/16 or 1/32" plastic describes hard holders and likely would not work
Bill in Burl

everycountrycoins
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 1:38 am

Re: Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

Postby everycountrycoins » Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:06 am

Well, I had it tested with an electron microscope today. The conclusion--an approximately 75/25 copper/nickel alloy. I have no idea where it may have come from, but it clearly was not the composition that it should have been. I guess a 75/25 C-N alloy isn't magnetic? Well, hopefully somebody will consider this "error" to be valuable. ;-)

56 percent nickel is required before the alloy shows ferro-magnetic properties at ordinary temperature. Thus, all makes much more sense, now (other than the origin of this non-standard proof planchet).

henrysmedford
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:44 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Non-magnetic nickel in 2012 proof quarters?

Postby henrysmedford » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:26 pm

I asked what it is worth--

Hi Joe

I would estimate that the coin is worth a $100 or more as it is a coin made on a foreign planchet. If a lot of them turn up, it will be worth less than that. If it's the only one, it will be worth more. But it will take many years to find out how plentiful or rare they are.

George Manz
George Manz Coins


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