Which years are more likely to have premium errors?

General discussions on the canadian coins errors and varieties.
muspel
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:31 pm

Which years are more likely to have premium errors?

Postby muspel » Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:10 pm

I just started getting into collecting this past year through American friends who are especially focused on U.S. Lincoln cent varieties and errors.

My question is:

How do I, as a Canadian,
look for die varieties and errors the way they do using books like "Strike it Rich with Pocket Change" by Ken Potter and Dr. Brian Allen and "CherryPicker's Guide" by Bill Fivaz and J.T. Stanton ,
BUT as a Canadian,
with Canadian cents?

Where should I turn my attention for help which is similar to those books?


I searched for Canadian numismatic information sources and books including, "Canadian Coin Digest" by George S. Cuhaj and Thomas Michael,
the Charlton books, and
"The book of Canadian coins and their varieties"
by Pierre Charest,

"Canadian Coin Digest" by George S. Cuhaj and Thomas Michael is a 285 page book in which 8 pages are devoted to the cent. The author writes in the introduction that the varieties mentioned in the book "should not be confused with the U.S. variety-and-error category.
Here [in his book] the varieties are not mistakes; they are deliberately created and issued variations of the standard design." and shortly after that,
"Do not construe any of this to mean there is no collecting of varieties and errors of the type common in the United States. There is. Collecting Royal Canadian Mint mistakes is just as active, just as interesting, and just as rewarding."
But that is all the author says on the subject.

"The book of Canadian coins and their varieties" by Pierre Charest,
is a 650-page book with 36 pages devoted to the cent. There is mention from time to time of unintended varieties and errors,
but nothing on the scale of "CherryPickers' Guide to Rare Die Varieties of United States Coins" by Bill Fivaz and J.T. Stanton, - 365 pages
with 157 devoted to the cent, with several photos of DDO's and RPM's etc.on practically every page, and 8 more to information about varieties;

and "Strike It Rich with Pocket Change" 3rd editon, by Ken Potter and Dr. Brian Allen; - 350 pages, 91 on the Lincoln cent.

I have not yet found anything that gives, year by year, with photos and descriptions of every premium Canadian penny variety and error that is likely to be sought by collectors, and what they might be worth depending on grade.

My intention is to help some local charity groups sort through their penny drive collections for special coins that might be of value to collectors before they cash them in.

If there are similar texts or sources on Canadian 'unintended' varieties to those American ones, I would be most grateful for any help anyone can give!

Thank you,

Tom

Bill in Burl
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:41 am
Location: Golden Horseshoe, ONT

Re: Which years are more likely to have premium errors?

Postby Bill in Burl » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:32 am

First, I suggest that you put this post (thread start) on a couple other coin sites to maximize the exposure that it gets. I certainly would try "canadiancoppercoins" http://canadiancoppercoins.com/ as well as the appropriate subforum in Coin Community Forum http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/foru ... RUM_ID=139 . The collector named "vertigris" on this site showed countless "varieties" of different denominations right here on this coin site, but all others have excellent info as well. By going to other coins sites, as well, and reading all the old posts/threads for years leading up to the current time, you will find a pretty complete list by piecing them all together.

It is the individual collectors that will give you the private research/compilations that you won't find in any book. As far as the annual Charlton guide(s), every year, in the back of the book, they will have a section on a different denomination or series .. I do not know when the small cent section will come out, but it should be about time. There is no buy-all, get-all compilation available. The Charlton "variety" sections in the back of the book are not all-inclusive, usually giving only a snapshot of what is available and popularly collectible.

As a Victoria Large Cent collector for nearly 40 years, many times you just have to make do with what is available and what you, yourself, can put together. You have to take bits and pieces from all over and put them together. You will NEVER find a single source that will cover all the varieties that have been discovered, just like there is no single one US book.

I am a variety "purist", like most Canadian collectors, in that we have a semi-definitive demarcation line between varieties and errors. I stick to the philosophy of Hans Zoell (the 1st of the remarkable Canadian Variety collectors/documentors) in that a "variety" is a coin produced with good planchets, with good dies, with machinery in proper working condition, and with the approval of the mintmaster/leader. At his prime back in the 60's, he labeled all coins produced that way a "Major Variety". These would be new Obverses/Reverses, repunches, different font/digit/lettering sizes, spacing/alignment variances, odd marriages, etc. What he referred to as a Major Variety, most Canadian collectors now refer to them as true "varieties".

Everything else that produced an anomaly on the coin, Zoell referred to those as Minor Varieties". Most now refer to them as "errors", because they were made with something wrong ... planchet, machine, die, or approval/authorization. These would be die cracks, pits, clips, laminations, cuds, die chips, rotations, clashes, caps, brokages, etc and any other thing that made a coin different than its normal "brother". The lines are somewhat blurred between "variety" and "error". I personally consider anything that produced a "doubling" to be a variety, regardless why it came to be different. Mechanical doubling or die deterioration doubling should actually be classified as errors because the machinery wasn't working properly or that the die was tired and worn out, but I consider them varieties because they look so cool and they are what many collectors want and desire.

Once the RCM started producing plated coins, of all denominations, minor errors abound because of crappy planchets, processes, or quality control. Almost all are common and not worth much of a premium. Stick with Major varieties that are coins that were produced the way that they were intended to be, but are "different" somehow. Good luck on your endeavor .. it's a long road.
Bill in Burl

muspel
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:31 pm

Re: Which years are more likely to have premium errors?

Postby muspel » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:27 pm

Thank you so much, Bill!!

I will definitely post the question on other coin websites including the ones you indicated.

Thank you also for the information about the section at the back of the Charlton books that may address small cent errors.

And for the clarification of the use of the terms "variety" and "error" in Canada. I realize there is always going to be some blurring of the distinction between them as used by different collectors. Thank you again.

I appreciate your final advice to stick with Major varieties that are produced as they were intended to be, but are "different" somehow, (in today's world of "plated" coins), though that seems, perhaps, to take me away from the focus of the American books I mentioned.

As I learn more about what makes a desired coin, I'll have a better idea of what to save and what to give back to the bank.

Bill in Burl
Posts: 428
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:41 am
Location: Golden Horseshoe, ONT

Re: Which years are more likely to have premium errors?

Postby Bill in Burl » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:18 pm

There are a great many errors that are worth a very healthy premium, but they are not things that you will pick up from pocket change or collection boxes. Brokages, "caps", major off-centers and major clips are all worth a pretty penny, but die cracks, chips, small cuds or extra metal, what some call guitars or hanging, clashes and the like aren't going to make you rich or let you afford some new coins. Errors and varieties of all kinds are fun and very interesting to collect and are a neat niche to rejuvinate the collecting doldrums. For your purposes, if you weed out the popular, collectible and well-known ones and return the others to the bank, then you are ahead of the game.
Bill in Burl

verdigris
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Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:51 am

Re: Which years are more likely to have premium errors?

Postby verdigris » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:46 am

Errors and varieties of all kinds are fun and very interesting to collect and are a neat niche to rejuvinate the collecting doldrums.

Aint that the truth.

Found a new error variety (new to me) on the December 2000 25c last night. I call it the "wormy apple". -- Die chips on the face of the apple on 3 of the 7 "Community" quarters I have.

Cheers

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Lightw4re
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Re: Which years are more likely to have premium errors?

Postby Lightw4re » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:49 pm

verdigris wrote:
Errors and varieties of all kinds are fun and very interesting to collect and are a neat niche to rejuvinate the collecting doldrums.


Found a new error variety (new to me) on the December 2000 25c last night. I call it the "wormy apple".
Cheers


You can find it here :
http://www.coinsandcanada.com/coins-pri ... -1953-2013 (Image #390 under More errors and varieties)


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