1872 25 Cents Inverted N over N

zonad
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1872 25 Cents Inverted N over N

Postby zonad » Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:15 am

After a close look at a couple coins I discovered the repunched N is inverted from the original. The first N has a strong upper serif while the repunched N has the weak serif to the top.

Image

mkb
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Postby mkb » Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:46 pm

If the N were inverted, there would be a serif at the bottom right of the N - the same serif that can be found on the top left of the N.

Is the 2 in 1872 the Large 2 variety?

zonad
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Postby zonad » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:28 am

You're right and I was so absorbed in the top right and bottom left that I missed it till later.
Image

mkb
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Postby mkb » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:51 am

This is a large 2. But it has an unusually large tail, like in the small 2. I have only one like this. It might be a Large 2 Over Small 2; either a repunch or something along the lines of a Wide 0 Over Small 0 as found in the 1880 date. What would help is an image or description of the bottom part of the coin from the date to the rim. And what to look for here is the stems in the leaves in the bough. In the Small 2 variety, the first leaf to the right of the bough as well as the first leaf to the left of the bough has full stems. In the Large 2 variety, one or both stems are missing. But in the Large 2 Over Small 2, both stems are intact - at least in the coin I have.

mkb
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Postby mkb » Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:05 pm

I have an image of a Double N variety, and both stems are missing on the reverse side bough. The 2 is the large size, and the tail on the end of the 2 appears long like in the Small 2. But the image isn't that good, so its tough be be sure about such details.

zonad
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Postby zonad » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:17 pm

Image

mkb
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Postby mkb » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:27 pm

Nice image - thanks. Both stems are missing - as in all varieties having a Large 2. This is the same coin that I have an image of. The most common Large 2 variety only has the right stem missing. One Large 2 variety has both stems, and a tall tail - making it look like a Large 2 Over Small 2. This coin is hard to find. The Both Stems Missing is also noticably harder to find. In 1874, the majority of coins have both stems missing. So it would appear the problem comes from at least the working hub. The 2 on your coins warrants further investigation though.

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Postby Lightw4re » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:29 pm

mkb wrote:Nice image


+1

zonad
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Postby zonad » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:28 am

Here's 3 more photos for your comments. The first also has a doubled N in Canada.
Image
Is the next one a small 2?
Image
And here's one with one stem attached.
Image
Thank you.

mkb
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Postby mkb » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:29 am

Nice! The first and third images are a large 2, the middle image is the small 2. A large 2 with full stems or a large 2 with no stems are the harder ones to find (your 1st and 3rd images in the previous posting). The large 2 with the missing right stem is the most common. How does the double N in the first of these three images compare to the double in the previous image?

zonad
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Postby zonad » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:14 pm

I have at least 6 with the doubled N and they all appear to be the same. One has the die crack in V of Victoria and one has the same die crack but with the top part of the A filled in.
Here's another 1872 with doubled or blundered A in Victoria. I think this is tougher than the doubled N but that may be because I looked for a year for the N's and was able to pick up a few. I haven't hunted the A's.
Image

mkb
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Postby mkb » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:18 am

Interesting. If the double/blundered N is the same in all 6 coins, and if at least two of them have a different reverse, then that should indicate a reverse die was changed while the obverse was still in use. One reverse with both stems missing and one reverse with both stems intact. I have another date 25c coin in which an N is blundered, and both are nearly identicle, yet they are clearly different. I had to study them for a while to spot the differences.

As for the coin having a Double A, is it with a Large 2 reverse or Small 2 reverse?

zonad
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Postby zonad » Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:35 am

Small 2. Are the differences you found actually in the N's?

mkb
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Postby mkb » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:51 am

Thanks. Here is an image of the 2 N's. The differences are easy to spot in a side by side image. But when viewed one at a time, its harder.

Image[/img]

Bill in Burl
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Postby Bill in Burl » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:38 pm

All of the H's are in a different place.


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