Difference between AU-50 and MS-60

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woodie101
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:12 pm

Difference between AU-50 and MS-60

Postby woodie101 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:34 pm

Hi there,
Could someone explain to me the visible difference between these 2 grades. Why would the description in this website say that a MS-60 is "ugly" - that almost says to me that an AU-50 coin looks more appealing .
Is this the case ?
Tnks

Bill in Burl
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:41 am
Location: Golden Horseshoe, ONT

Re: Difference between AU-50 and MS-60

Postby Bill in Burl » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:41 pm

Supposedly (and I do mean supposedly) any MS coin is unciculated. It can have any number of nag marks, discolorations, no luster and other not-so-good stuff on the coin, but as long as it's unciculated, it will get an MS-6x grade (with or without comments). An AU coin can show minimal wear, but may have luster and shine and other good stuff, but cam never make 60 beacuse it circulated. That's why you buy the coin, not the holder. MANY AU coins look better than their 60 counterparts .. it's the definition of 'circulated' that gets hung up.
Bill in Burl

woodie101
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Difference between AU-50 and MS-60

Postby woodie101 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:12 pm

That's kinda what I wondered - guess where I,m messed up is that I have some 1960's and 70's nickels that under the 16X glass they aren't flawless, but almost ; except that I got them in change so obviously they are circulated.
So does uncirculated mean they have to be mint sealed or contained ?

Bill in Burl
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:41 am
Location: Golden Horseshoe, ONT

Re: Difference between AU-50 and MS-60

Postby Bill in Burl » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:10 pm

No, they could have come from great big bank bags and be uncirc .. they don't have to be sealed or holdered.
Bill in Burl

verdigris
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:51 am

Re: Difference between AU-50 and MS-60

Postby verdigris » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:27 pm

woodie101 wrote:So does uncirculated mean they have to be mint sealed or contained ?

Not necessarily. An UNC/MS can be as simple as the teller at a bank cracking open a fresh roll of coins and handing one to the customer (me). Then I take that coin and keep it in my pocket...with other change...for quite some time. After a while I decide to then toss it into the bottom of my sock drawer that I open and close once a day... Over time I move it here and there, cuttlery drawer, junk drawer until I finally get smart and glue it into a photo album. Years later I pluck it out and send it to off to be graded...and Bob's your Uncle... what Bill said. Cheers

woodie101
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Difference between AU-50 and MS-60

Postby woodie101 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:14 am

Wow - So ; here's the thing ......... I sell on Ebay. Suppose I came across a Canada 2000-P nickel with a couple small surface scratches but lots of luster etc. AND , suppose I was a shyster as well , and so listed it as a MS-60 grade coin - and the picture looked the part - I could potentially get $5 or 6 bucks for it vs $2 or 3 if it was AU-50.
How could even a seasoned collector/grader tell the difference between " rattling around in my sock drawer for 14 years" or that I got it as change 10 years ago and kept it in a "safe place" . At least in the lower grades it's a lot easier to tell a VG coin from an EF coin, eh ?

Bill in Burl
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:41 am
Location: Golden Horseshoe, ONT

Re: Difference between AU-50 and MS-60

Postby Bill in Burl » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:17 am

Although you can dupe a newbie into buying an Ebay coin using nice adjectives, adverbs and descriptions ... once you do that to someone who buys the coin and not the words, then you are in trouble. Ebay feedbacks don't disappear overnight and it only takes 1 or 2 MS-60's that turn out to be AU or XF's and your feedback rating will never recover and you'll be tagged as dishonest. You can talk newbies into anything (and most TPG's do exactly that by not putting enough into 'remarks' or 'comments') because they buy words or certificate numbers rather than what they see with the coin in hand. As you stated above with 'surface scratches' .. a collector would know that you can't have much for surface scratches on an MS coin, but you can have bag marks. If you have scratches, it's been circulated or possibly cleaned. Buying on the internet is a very poor substitute for buying a coin in hand, because you can play with the words, play with the lighting, play with the angles, and play with the photos themselves. Buy many people have the internet as their only option. I would only suggest that any time that you see 'rare', 'scarce', 'spectacular', 'stunning', 'uncirc' or 'MS-6x' in an Ebay ad, then red flags should fly in your face until your eyes hurt. I would recommend that any coin that you intend to sell on Ebay should be looked at with "collector eyes" rather than "seller eyes". If you, personally wouldn't buy what you are trying to sell at a goosed-up grade, then you have no business on Ebay and you'll be caught sooner or later.

You can't "list" a coin as an MS-60, because only TPG graded coins can have that in the title .. you can only do it in the description. ANYONE who believes anything written in Ebay descriptions as being 100% truth needs to have their head examined. There was a study done where it found that almost 20% of world-wide internet users actually believed EVERYTHING that they read on the internet, including blogs ... but then again, I read that info on the internet so I believe none of that until I check multiple sources. To reiterate what your initial quandry was for this thread .. yes, there are many AU coins that look more appealing than something tagged as MS.
Bill in Burl

woodie101
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Difference between AU-50 and MS-60

Postby woodie101 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:54 pm

Well, I understand the principle of the AU vs MS - thanks for explaining that. While I now understand the principle, I still can't wrap my head around the idea that a coin that's in worst "looking" condition to the eye can be of more value - that to me goes against the majority of conditions that make a collectable item worthwhile. I can't really think of any other commodity in the collectable field that has that criteria. I agree with the fact that there are many con artists ( maybe that's harsh to use the word 'con', but for lack of a better word ) out there on Ebay, but I don't agree that it's a "very poor substitute" to buy online because of the misleading information presented by the seller. True - there is a ton of that out there, but in the case of Ebay, if I sell you a "wow" coin and you receive an inferior one, then hopefully you'll post a negative feedback and as a seller I am not going to last long. In my personal case - because I'm not a collector ( altho' I'm starting to spend far too much time looking at coins ! ), I let my pictures do the explaining for me. I will take countless shots if necessary to get a good representation of that coin, and then let the buyer decide if it's up to their standard of what they want. That way, when all the feedback says things like " item as described " etc, then that should give some confidence to the future buyer that the seller is honest. So far, that's worked for me , and because 100% feedback represents my commitment to the buyer, then I'll keep operating that way.
Anyway - getting back on track - I appreciate the time you and Verdigris have spent on trying to get it through my "thick skull" what is different about the 2 grades, perhaps if I stick with this for any length of time I'll be able to look at a coin and tell the difference.
Cheers

verdigris
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:51 am

Re: Difference between AU-50 and MS-60

Postby verdigris » Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:07 am

Suppose I came across a Canada 2000-P nickel with a couple small surface scratches but lots of luster etc. AND , suppose I was a shyster as well , and so listed it as a MS-60 grade coin - and the picture looked the part - I could potentially get $5 or 6 bucks for it vs $2 or 3 if it was AU-50.

Suppose we not suppose. What you've just said describes my 2000 P 5c to a tee. I spent the better half of last winter roll searching to suppress the cabin fever and fill the hole. I researched the coin and concluded that my location increased the odds of finding one--and got lucky. But now that I know that I could have bought yours for a fin why'd the heck did I bother?! Don't sell that plugged nickel short Woodie, it's the 26 far 6 of the new century :wink:

perhaps if I stick with this for any length of time I'll be able to look at a coin and tell the difference.

I believe the coin, any coin, has a lot of splainin' to do to save its skin. Compare apples and oranges side-by-side repeatedly and you'll be suprised at how soon you'll be able to at least distinguish between a smooth cider and penicillin.

As for sticking with it... when you can snatch the Vicky from Bill's hand, it will be time for you to leave.

Cheers

woodie101
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:12 pm

Re: Difference between AU-50 and MS-60

Postby woodie101 » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:33 pm

So I guess the 3 2000-P's that I sold for a lot price of $.99 was a good find for someone then eh? ( sniff sniff ) . Had I known ...........


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