1895 vicky errors x 3 ?

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redcent
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:40 pm

1895 vicky errors x 3 ?

Post by redcent » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:50 am

Hi everyone, thanks for looking at this post. My pics are poor but, 1) no denticles on obverse and an excessively wide rim. 2) traces of denticles on reverse. 3) a crack just ahead of, and over the R in regina, rough edges, as if a split. 4) date, the 8 and especially the 9 are high at the bottom of the date only.. the top of the 5 slants out, away from the date. Thanks, in advance for any input.
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Bill in Burl
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Re: 1895 vicky errors x 3 ?

Post by Bill in Burl » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:15 pm

What is the exact diameter of your coin? It looks like it has been flattened, which disturbed the denticles and made the coin larger. It should be 2.54 cm (1 inch) in diameter. Griffin describes 12 1895 varieties, almost all of them dealing with the 1-8, 8-9 and 9-5 gaps between the digits. Since the 5 was handpunched into the working die, the vertical alignment/position of the 5 differs. Your "5", as far as font, is the same as normal, but it may be canted or cocked slightly due to the handpunch of the digit. I have 15 1895's and 4 have the D'C in/on the R in Regina. Since I think that your coin was, at some time, hammered with leather between the hammer and the coin, as well as underneath, that;s what caused the split at the edge. I think that you have a common 1895 that someone did some work on.
Bill in Burl

redcent
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Re: 1895 vicky errors x 3 ?

Post by redcent » Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:58 pm

Bill thanks for all the valuable insight. The erratic date is not too suprising , I had no more 95's to compare to. Being new , where can I find griffin? A book? to look at the date variety's? I removed this coin, a picture is attached with a calibrated veneer.1.003 and it is consistent all around. Now that it's loose I will try for a better picture or 2. Vicky cents are becoming fascinating! Thanks for your time. Scott.
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Bill in Burl
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Re: 1895 vicky errors x 3 ?

Post by Bill in Burl » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:53 pm

Jack Griffin was the premier "variety" researcher/author for Canadian Large Cents for decades, starting about 1960. He and Hans Zoell published formal and informal studies/pamphlets/articles on varieties and errors on large cents for the benefit of the numismatic community. Jack presented a paper to the Toronto Coin Club in 1960 and that was the fore-runner of his "Some Die Varieties of the Large Cents of British North America and Canada" publication, I think in about 1990-92. I met and talked frequently to Jack when he was still attending coin shows in the T.O. area. He died a few years before 2010. Prior to his death he sold the copyright rights to Charlton and Bill Cross of Charlton promised that he would republish his work after Jack was no longer around. When you conduct research into many of the Canadian Large Cent dates, you will find Griffin #'s attached (ie, an 1859 DP#1 is Gr-15). He was a remarkable researcher who documented maybe 80% of the known Large Cent varieties that we know today. In the last 10 years, some much more specific-dated coins and their attached varieties have been done by Haxby and Turner, but Jack's work covered all Canadian Large Cents from 1858 to 1920, including the eastern Provinces.

Charlton DID republish Jack's work in 1910 WITH photos of many of them. Jack's initial work was words only with some very cloudy descriptions. How do you interpret "near, close, very close, far, very far, wide, etc) when talking about digit spacings? Each "variety" was listed on the pages in "date spacing" order by looking at the gaps between the digits. Many times, some of the details that actually delineated the variety were left out of the description verbiage, but always included the digit spacings, as well as the fonts and vertical position. If you find a copy of the Charlton reprint, DO NOT use the pictures as they refer, ID and reference the description. A great many (probably nearing 50%) of the photos are mismatched as to the Griffin number. The descriptions are correct, but the photos don't match the words. Still, Griffin's book/pamphlet is one book that any large cent collector needs in his library. Some sometimes show up on Ebay or Abebooks.

As an example, the first 5 varieties listed for your 1895 (they start with Gr-223 thru Gr-236) have these classifiers as to the date spacings of the 8-9 and the 9-5: Very close very close; Very close very close ; Close close; Close less-close; Some wider close. See what I mean? Again, if you get the Charlton reprint, called "Monograph One", do not use any of the photos because they are mostly WRONG!
Bill in Burl

redcent
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Re: 1895 vicky errors x 3 ?

Post by redcent » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:58 pm

I would not be very good with "close" and a bit "closer" but I look for that research. Spent the afternoon researching 1859 stems and vines. I love it! Have some to check soon. Thanks for your time!

Bill in Burl
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Re: 1895 vicky errors x 3 ?

Post by Bill in Burl » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:23 pm

It's the '58's that you want to check the vines and stems. EVERY 1859 has vine breaks at 7 and 13 (but they each grew as more dies were made. Then the vine break at 2 started small about 1/2 to 2/3 of thru the year. The stems are another matter, but lots of repunching thru the whole year. I've fot a little less than 1000 1859's, but had more at one time.
Bill in Burl

Bill in Burl
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Re: 1895 vicky errors x 3 ?

Post by Bill in Burl » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:38 pm

It's the '58's that you want to check for the vines and stems. EVERY 1859 has vine breaks at 7 and 13 (but they each grew as more dies were made. Then the vine break at 2 started small about 1/2 to 2/3 of thru the year and grew all the time. The stems are another matter, but lots of repunching thru the whole year. I've got a little less than 1000 1859's, but had more at one time. Vicky large cents are a life-long investigation. Enjoy them!
Bill in Burl

redcent
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:40 pm

Re: 1895 vicky errors x 3 ?

Post by redcent » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:37 pm

Absolutely! I couldn't put it better. I am reading there is 200+ combinations. Been through 25, the most intriguing is a wide break at 7 and 13 plus no stems at all, at 6, 8, and 10 thanks. Scott.

Bill in Burl
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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:41 am
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Re: 1895 vicky errors x 3 ?

Post by Bill in Burl » Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:33 am

Now that the thread has gone to '59's, it's a little off topic. You will need to go to Jim Haxby's and Phil's site every day: https://www.vickycents.com/
Bill in Burl

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