Parameters of errors in bank notes

General discussions about canadian banknnotes.
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AllenP467
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Parameters of errors in bank notes

Post by AllenP467 » Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:49 pm

I have some consecutive banknotes, that appear to have an offset ink error, and some that appear to have the serial number printed out of register.
Are there any specific parameters as to determining what percentage the ink offset is, and any specific parameters on determining if the serial number is out of register?
Thanks in advance

john1000
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Re: Parameters of errors in bank notes

Post by john1000 » Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:07 pm

How about a pic ?

AllenP467
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Re: Parameters of errors in bank notes

Post by AllenP467 » Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:47 pm

New to this....how do I attach a picture

AllenP467
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Re: Parameters of errors in bank notes

Post by AllenP467 » Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:38 am

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AllenP467
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Re: Parameters of errors in bank notes

Post by AllenP467 » Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:38 am

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Nota_phil
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Re: Parameters of errors in bank notes

Post by Nota_phil » Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:48 am

I have some consecutive banknotes, that appear to have an offset ink error, and some that appear to have the serial number printed out of register.
-For the 2 pictures you posted I cannot see what you are referring to. Do you have the correct ("error") side of each note? Can you be more explicit (I'm lost).
Are there any specific parameters as to determining what percentage the ink offset is, and any specific parameters on determining if the serial number is out of register?
-Charlton GPM has parameters for Offset Printing Errors (or E-3). All errors are listed at the back of the catalogue & my 31st ED have Offset on P400. Offset printing errors have a mirrored image overlaying the original design of the note & are very dramatic (noticeable). Once you have seen one you know pretty fast that it is an error.
They're E2-i up to 25%; E2-ii 25% to 75%; E2iii 75% to 99% & E2-iv 100%

Out of Register or E7 is less precise but on P403, I have E7-i Out of Register, E7-ii Out of Register with adjoining note & E7-iii Out of Register with 3 adjoining notes.

This site has a great page showing several types of banknote errors:
https://www.coinsandcanada.com/banknote ... ieties.php
Join the journey: check out Notaphilyc Culture:
https://sites.google.com/view/notaphily ... -banknotes

AllenP467
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Re: Parameters of errors in bank notes

Post by AllenP467 » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:28 am

I have examined the link, you provided; I found it to be vague in its descriptions of determining if it is an error. ( I. E. "Serial number is printed in the wrong place") what is the correct positioning of the serial numbers?
What I seek is measurements of where said serial number is supposed to be; in relation to the upright black bars on said note.

As to the offset ink "a portion or the entirety" how big of portion are they speaking of?
Is it for example, 25% or less" is that 25% of the note, or the ink?
I see ink on either end of the bill, I see ink from Laurier's jacket, I see "cinq" inverted, and "CAN" inverted on the right side of the bird.
The photo, does it no justice, the 8 consecutive $5 notes I have show the same details I speak of.

I do not have the said reference material from charlton, you describe. Images of these pages, would help.
Thanks in advance

Nota_phil
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Re: Parameters of errors in bank notes

Post by Nota_phil » Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:18 am

The photo, does it no justice, the 8 consecutive $5 notes I have show the same details I speak of.
- I have seen this comment before, primarily on social media where the post shows regular banknotes. I don't see anything wrong (nor error like) on both pictures you've posted. When you suggest there be "parameters" I get the feeling like you would like your notes to be errors- but they are not. Errors, as I wrote earlier, must be dramatic.
I do not have the said reference material from charlton, you describe.
- Then I suggest you look through one from your local library (older copies will do), or better yet, pick up a copy if you're truly interested in errors!
I have examined the link, you provided; I found it to be vague in its descriptions of determining if it is an error. ( I. E. "Serial number is printed in the wrong place") what is the correct positioning of the serial numbers?
-Now you are discussing something different: Misplaced serial numbers when your OP was "cut out of register." You looked at the 1954 $5 plus the 8 examples of the Misplaced Serial Numbers? The ANB $5 is the worst example I have seen (& should be dismissed) as the serials are slightly out of place. In this case, with the note being circulated, the premium would be very minor if anything at all above face. Serial numbers are the last element applied to banknotes & can be stamped in various placements on the back (or front) of the notes- marginally. This is normal & within normal tolerances of QC.

Check out the BIRDS $20 (2nd example) and that's what you need for it to be called a significant error. Serials should be nearly touching (or overlapping) the bar codes. Even some of the misplaced "stuck digits" shown on the polymers are fairly minor & won't provide much of a premium above FV in circulated condition.
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AllenP467
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Re: Parameters of errors in bank notes

Post by AllenP467 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:04 pm

I did not "suggest", I "asked" if there were any said "parameters".
Basically a simple yes or no answer would suffice, but you now have chosen to make assumptions about me; my OP does not, nor has it said "cut out of register".
My OP, never asked remotely, in any way, shape or form "if there was a premium on them". You took it upon yourself to assume that was what I was looking for.
As for your "feelings", you know the one's where "I want it to be an error and it's not; again assuming on your part.
I get it, you have been doing this along time....I can respect that; pro tip for you "stick to what you know", don't make assumptions, and most important....
If it's a "simple" yes or no question, which mine was; and you can't answer it. Don't roll in like the "big dog" on the block, and try and baffle me with your brilliance.
Oh, when I mentioned I don't have said reference material you have perhaps an image of said pages that was a "suggestion" but I will find said info myself; at the library.
Anyhow, LSB, look no bold, or italic print ( isn't that how people respond when they get politely triggered, cause it gives them satisfaction when they are treating people like they are stupid, or are you an all CAPS kinda guy?) , lots of quotation marks, don't need bold, italics, CAPS, or even to be obscene about it.
Chances are I will get "booted" cause you will cry, or be offended.....

Nota_phil
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Re: Parameters of errors in bank notes

Post by Nota_phil » Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:42 am

but you now have chosen to make assumptions about me; my OP does not, nor has it said "cut out of register".
-I had not made any assumptions about you (other than the premium): but I feel bad you have taken offence to my answer. Allow me to remind you of your original question:
I have some consecutive banknotes, that appear to have an offset ink error, and some that appear to have the serial number printed out of register.

Since there were no pictures & others asked you to post them, I was just as confused about what you wanted to clear up re: "error parameters" as the others who tried to help. When I saw the pictures I thought my answer was clearly "no."
My OP, never asked remotely, in any way, shape or form "if there was a premium on them". You took it upon yourself to assume that was what I was looking for.
Okay, fair enough: I apologize for making the assumption that you wondered about a premium even though most collectors who post queries about their notes are typically asking whether a note qualifies as an "error" is usually curious about premiums.
If it's a "simple" yes or no question, which mine was; and you can't answer it. Don't roll in like the "big dog" on the block, and try and baffle me with your brilliance.
I thought my original reply was that & had no intention to "baffle" you nor be the "big dog on the block." I am a collector still learning just like you. Obvious not brilliant using caps/bold, etc! I'm an old fart & again sorry if that threw you.
It was not my intention to rattle you. In fact, I was agreeing with your point that the images (& some examples) which were slightly vague & misleading (1 of the reasons I suggested the book).

Anyway, hope you can accept this post as an "olive branch" & no hard feelings!
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AllenP467
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Re: Parameters of errors in bank notes

Post by AllenP467 » Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:38 am

Not even close to being rattled, re reading what I originally wrote deserves clarification, for better understanding.
I have quite a few notes similar to what I posted, what I did post I'm aware of what they are, and their values.
Of the $10 notes, I have 5 of them 1 graded, 4 not.
The $5 notes, I have 9, 1 graded, 8 not. Some premium there not much....but I will take it..
It's the other rough uncirculated stuff, I'm looking to find value in.... hence some kind of bilateral tolerances chart that's shows plus and minuses to determine value.
But I will be getting a copy of said book for reference, for sure

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