More help on 1891 Canada Large cents.

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KEN66
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 2:22 pm

More help on 1891 Canada Large cents.

Post by KEN66 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:24 am

I am getting more confused with my 1891 Canada large cents. I even purchased two books on Canada coins which confused me more. Some of my 1891 large cents have a broken N some full N some with a large vertical cross inside of the E in Regina some small. I have.
LG Date LG leaves
3 with broken N small E
5-Full N Large E

SM date SM leaves
3-broken N Small E
5-Full N Large E

SM date LG leaves
2-broken N Small E
2-Full N Large E
Thank you for any reply.
Ken

Bill in Burl
Posts: 935
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:41 am
Location: Golden Horseshoe, ONT

Re: More help on 1891 Canada Large cents.

Post by Bill in Burl » Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:55 am

Large vertical on E's are all Obv 3's. Normal E's are Obv 2's. Obv 3's have full N's.

All Obv 2 LL/LD has a broken lower left serif, except for a single working die that had the N re-engraved. Scarce

First, you have to separate the Obv 2's from the 3's and then see what's "normal".

Another very scarce coin is an Obv 3 that has the left (really both sides) side of the "T" in Gratia repunched with a different font T, which has longer hanging serifs.

If you really want to know more about the '91's, pick up a copy of Rob Turner's "Dies and Diadems". You will learn a tremendous amount of info on all the dies after the Obv 1 family(s). Not only does he go through all the breakdowns of the masters, matrices and submatrices, but the whole back of the book is great photographs of each and every 1891 die and their marriages. He is stokrooky or bosox on the 2 main Canadian coin sites and are available through him.. His 5 books are also available from the RCNA I think.
Bill in Burl

KEN66
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: More help on 1891 Canada Large cents.

Post by KEN66 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:36 am

Bill
Thanks again for helping me understand Canada large cents. I just started collecting them about two years ago. I find them very interesting. When you state Large E are obv 3 normal E are obv 2 and obv 3 have full N's does this pertain to all Canada large cents or just the 1891? I will try and purchase Bob Turners books from the site you mentioned.I really can't thank you enough for all your help.
Ken

Bill in Burl
Posts: 935
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:41 am
Location: Golden Horseshoe, ONT

Re: More help on 1891 Canada Large cents.

Post by Bill in Burl » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:01 am

No, what I said about the E's and N's are mostly only good for the 1891's. However The Obv 3 coins in 90, 91, & 92 all have a large crosslatched E's and are easy to separate from a pile of large cents. The Obv 3 also has been called the "mumps portrait" which made the queen look like she had them.

All Obv 1 or 1a coins have the crown tip not touching the bead at the top and the neck truncation finishes directly above a bottom bead, either pointed (obv 1) or rounded (Obv 1a). All Obv 1's have a smooth, rounded chin as well

The '76's all have a single serif N foot, and the 81/82's (Obv 2)are almost all repunched to make the N full, since they were using old '76 Rev dies and overpunched to correct with a punch on 81's & 82's. For 81 & 82, you will have Obv 1, 1a, & 1a/1. For '82 you will have all those PLUS a new Obv 2 and Obv 2/1. The 2's have a creased, dimpled throat and the crown tip is into the bead and the neck truncation ends between the 2 bottom beads.

The Queen didn't like her jaw and cheek all puffed out from mumps, so an Obv 4 was created. It will have the smooth, rounded throat/chin of an Obv 2, but slightly different. However, the crown tip impinged directly into a bead, so you can't mix it up with an Obv 1(no touch).

There you go ... easy ID's.
Bill in Burl

KEN66
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 2:22 pm

Re: More help on 1891 Canada Large cents.

Post by KEN66 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:21 am

Thanks for the quick reply. A lot to take in. I will give it a go.
Ken

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