Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

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Nota_phil
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Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by Nota_phil » Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:53 am

Since this is covered in other forums, I thought I would post this for those who are curious. Briefly, a signature change-over occurs when there is a new Governor or Senior Deputy Governor appointed. This can happen at the beginning of a 10M prefix run, in the middle or near the end. The best (most sought after change-overs) happen at the beginning or end of a prefix since they're generally lower in number (or tough).

This post will cover what we know about the POLYMER "Frontiers/Vertical" series so far & hopefully members/collectors can post & add info regarding new change-overs as they become known. I have not covered the 2 brief commemorative series as there were no change-overs other than the FWW prefix shared with the 2015 $20.

The first name is the Deputy Governor & second name is Governor with the serial numbers listed either below or above in the millions M):

2013 FIVE:
Wilkins-Carney HBG (below 3.62M)
Macklem-Poloz HBG (above 3.62M)

Macklem-Poloz HMC (below 5.82M)
Wilkins-Poloz HMC (above 5.82M)

Wilkins-Poloz IND (below 8.98M)
Wilkins-Macklem IND (above 8.98M)

Wilkins-Macklem INK (below 6.28M)
Lane*-Macklem INK (above 6.28M)

*Deputy Governor Timothy Lane has been acting as Deputy Senior in absence of Carolyn Rogers. The endpoint of this signature is unknown at this time.

2013 TEN:
Mcklem-Carney FTH (below 8.36M)**
Macklem-Poloz FTH (above 8.36M)

Macklem-Poloz FTN (below 7.18M)
Wilkins-Poloz FTN (above 7.18M)

2018 Vertical TEN:
Wilkins-Poloz FFE (below 0.85M)
Wilkins-Macklem FFE (above 0.85M)

** Few M-C FTH (around 10) have been reported & are much scarcer than M-P FTH $10. It is suspected that only a ream of FTH with the Macklem-Carney signature were released.

2012 TWENTY:
Macklem-Carney FVP (below 8.96M)
Wilkins-Poloz FVP (above 8.96M)

Wilkins-Poloz FWW (above 3.47M prefix shared with the 2015 Commemorative issue)
Wilkins-Poloz seen as high as FZT (no new signature reported)

2012 FIFTY:
Mcklem-Carney GHD (below 4.90M)***
Willkins-Poloz GHD (above 4.90M)

Wilkins-Poloz GME (below 6.25M)
Wilkins-Macklem GME (above 6.25M)

Wilkins-Macklem GMN (below 6.11M)
Lane-Macklem GMM (above 6.11M)

*** Some M-C GHD have been reported so the 4.9M run is believed to be a very short release.

2012 ONE HUNDRED:
Mcklem-Carney FKN (below 1.39M)
Macklem-Poloz FKN (above 8.59M)

Macklem-Poloz GJA (below 3.02M)
Wilkins-Poloz GJA (above 6.97M)

Wilkins-Poloz GJL (below 8.99M)
Lane-Macklem GJL (above 9.00M)


This is a good starting point if you're interested in tough change-overs. As noted with the FIVE Deputy Governor Timothy Lanes signature came as a surprise since this is the first time a Senior Deputy governor's signature was substituted with an acting Sr. deputy. The best change-overs are the ones approaching 1M but there are others like the M-C FTH $10 which are very scarce. I've written a bit of commentary on this subject at CCF here:
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/top ... _ID=387364

We also expect the new Sr. Deputy, Carolyn Roger's signature to be arriving soon. To learn more about the BOC's governing council see this link:
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/about/governing-council/

There are a 3 scarce short prefixes as well ($20 BSW, $50 AMK & $100 EKZ all with the Macklem-Carney signatures)
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CanuckCoinGirl
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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by CanuckCoinGirl » Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:50 pm

Thanks for posting this - I was pretty sure I had a couple 'good' ones, but had to spend time looking to be sure.

So - any bill (or coin) predictions with the upcoming change from Elizabeth to Charles - short runs of course, but anyone want to offer some expert predictions (guesses) on what should be going into the stash now, that might not have two weeks ago? Think of this as an education moment and not a financial advising one, although they are related to some extent! I was expecting someone to be on one of the memorial services talking about Canadian cash, as having such a long lived monarch has led to a large collection of bills and coins with her image, and Charles is likely to be a relatively short run, given his current age. I know because of my (small) collection, I will remember "Liz" very fondly, and it will be part of why I felt like someone I knew had passed.

*Please no posts on your thoughts about the monarchy right now - there will be other times for that discussion.*

regent
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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by regent » Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:47 pm

Excellent summary, just verify the 100 Wilkins-Poloz GJL (below 8.99M)
Lane-Macklem GJL (above 9.00M) I think it is GKL and not GJL
Regent
Regent life member 59 CPMS

Nota_phil
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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by Nota_phil » Tue Sep 13, 2022 11:52 am

regent wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:47 pm
Excellent summary, just verify the 100 Wilkins-Poloz GJL (below 8.99M)
Lane-Macklem GJL (above 9.00M) I think it is GKL and not GJL
Regent
Thanks @Regent. You are correct (as usual). Unfortunately, it is too late for me to fix my original post so I will just revise the ONE HUNDRED section below:
2012 ONE HUNDRED:
Mcklem-Carney FKN (below 1.39M)
Macklem-Poloz FKN (above 8.59M)

Macklem-Poloz GJA (below 3.02M)
Wilkins-Poloz GJA (above 6.97M)

Wilkins-Poloz GKL (below 8.99M)
Lane-Macklem GKL (above 9.00M)
So - any bill (or coin) predictions with the upcoming change from Elizabeth to Charles - short runs of course, but anyone want to offer some expert predictions (guesses) on what should be going into the stash now, that might not have two weeks ago?
My favourite article on this topic (changing monarch image) is Nick Logans "Will Charles II replace Queen Elizabeth..." from CBC:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/king-cha ... -1.6578839
Steven Woodland, president of the RCNA, makes the most cogent observations. The most important point is that that the " the coins and banknotes adorned with Queen Elizabeth currently in circulation will rise in sentimental value but not so much in value as a collector's item" since 10,000,000 of each prefix is released. There are literally hundreds of millions of these QEII notes -so do not pay outrageous BIN on eBay for a common $20! Try to get one of the change-overs or a 2015 Commemorative in higher grade/condition. A special number would also be great.

My prediction? It is possible that the coins will be changed in 2023 but I doubt the $20 banknote will be changed until 2024. The reason? The BoC didn't change the 1937 King George VI series until 2 years after QEII 1952 coronation (in 1954). Also, Canada has rushed headlong into being a cashless society & the polymer's extended lifespan means prefixes have only trickled out so it could be even later. The FZT still has the old Wilkins-Poloz signature. It may change to "Rogers-Macklem" (the new Sr. Deputy Governor so that could be the next change-over to spot.
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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by Nota_phil » Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:32 pm

And update has been reported on the CPMF re: the new Carolyn Rogers signature. See:
https://cdnpapermoney.com/index.php?top ... 4#msg70614
According to the update, Wilkins-Macklem signature will remain on $10 notes up to FFK8189999, at which point the signatures change to Rogers-Macklem.

2018 Vertical TEN:
Wilkins-Poloz FFE (below 0.85M)
Wilkins-Macklem FFE (above 0.85M)
> Thus Wilkins-Poloz FFE will be the change-over to look out for.

Wilkins-Macklem FFK (below 8.18M)
Rogers-Maclkem FFK (above 8.19M)
> Thus the Rogers-Macklem should be the tough change-over to look out for. (As of 12/29/22 131 Wilkins-Macklem FFK
have been reported on the SNDB)

** Few Macklem-Carney FTH (around 10) have been reported & are much scarcer than Macklem-Poloz FTH $10. It is suspected that only a ream of FTH with the Macklem-Carney signature were released.
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Enyaw
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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by Enyaw » Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:11 am

I found this note the other day and I was wondering if it was worth hanging onto, it has two light creases on the one side of the note. It seems to fit in the range indicated below (54,735 away from the change-over).

2012 FIFTY:
Mcklem-Carney GHD (below 4.90M)***

*** Some M-C GHD have been reported so the 4.9M run is believed to be a very short release.
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Nota_phil
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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by Nota_phil » Mon Mar 27, 2023 12:58 pm

I found this note the other day and I was wondering if it was worth hanging onto
-Yes, if you can afford to hang onto it, then I would keep it. So far, only 65 notes have been reported on the CPMF SNDB from the Macklem - Carney GHD 4.9M run. In comparison, 731 Wilkins - Poloz GHD $50 have been reported so we believe only a portion of the full run were released for the Macklem Carney GHD signature combo (only high & low serial numbers have been reported for the first signature).
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Enyaw
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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by Enyaw » Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:25 pm

Thanks Nota_phil, I will hang onto it.

miclac
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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by miclac » Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:01 pm

where can I find out the changeover prefixes for the non-polymer notes?

Nota_phil
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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by Nota_phil » Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:12 pm

The Canadian Paper Money Forum (CPMF) has a Serial Number Data Base (SNDB) which provides all the info on the Journey Series. But you must register in order to use the SNDB
https://cdnpapermoney.com/forum/

For any earlier series (Birds back to the 1935) you'll have to get yourself a Charlton Guide to Government Paper Money (GGPM). These catalogues/guides are jammed pack with great info that can really help collectors seek the good/tougher stuff (& get an idea what its worth). You can either look at a copy in the REFERENCE section of your local library or purchase a copy on eBay. Try their homepage:
https://www.charltonpress.com/

Re: SNDB:
The tables take a little time to get used to so be patient with yourself & study the lows & highs. See the screenshot below. Some prefixes will have green sections (as shown) which also indicate insert replacement ranges.
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miclac
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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by miclac » Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:24 pm

Many thanks Nota_phil

Nota_phil
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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by Nota_phil » Mon May 22, 2023 11:27 am

Some new info for the $20. Therefore, I have updated/recapped the important CHANGE-OVER prefixes for each denomination, as of May 22/2023:
Key:
* Tougher variety
** Very tough/few reported
+ Yet to be reported on the CPMF SNDB
All data from the CPMF SNDB:
https://cdnpapermoney.com/forum/

2013 FIVE:
Wilkins-Carney HBG (below 3.62M)*
Macklem-Poloz HBG (above 3.62M)

Macklem-Poloz HMC (below 5.82M)
Wilkins-Poloz HMC (above 5.82M)

Wilkins-Poloz IND (below 8.98M)
Wilkins-Macklem IND (above 8.98M)*

Wilkins-Macklem INK (below 6.28M)
Lane-Macklem INK (above 6.28M)

2018 Vertical TEN:
Wilkins-Poloz FFE (below 0.85M)*
Wilkins-Macklem FFE (above 0.85M)

Wilkins-Macklem FFK (below 8.18M)
Rogers-Maclkem FFK (above 8.19M)
*Skipped Lane-Macklem combo

2017 Commemorative TEN:
Wilkins-Poloz CDF (below 3.19M)* Short prefix

2012 TWENTY:
Macklem-Carney FVP (below 8.96M)
Wilkins-Poloz FVP (above 8.96M)*

Wilkins-Poloz FWW (above 3.47M prefix shared with the 2015 Commemorative issue)
Wilkins-Poloz FZT (below 8.01M)
Lane-Macklem FZT (above 8.01M)+

2015 TWENTY:
Wilkins-Poloz FWW (below 3.47M)*

2012 FIFTY:
Mcklem-Carney GHD (below 4.90M)**
Willkins-Poloz GHD (above 4.90M)

Wilkins-Poloz GME (below 6.25M)
Wilkins-Macklem GME (above 6.25M)

Wilkins-Macklem GMN (below 6.11M)
Lane-Macklem GMM (above 6.11M)

2012 ONE HUNDRED:
Mcklem-Carney FKN (below 1.39M)
Macklem-Poloz FKN (above 8.59M)

Macklem-Poloz GJA (below 3.02M)
Wilkins-Poloz GJA (above 6.97M)

Wilkins-Poloz GKL (below 8.99M)
Lane-Macklem GKL (above 9.00M)
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Enyaw
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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by Enyaw » Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:44 pm

Hi Nota_phil,

Great summary on the signature change-overs. Thanks for keeping this updated.
I think the 2013 FIVE signature change-overs for Macklem-Poloz and Wilkins-Poloz is HCM not HMC.

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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by Nota_phil » Tue Oct 17, 2023 8:30 am

Enyaw wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2023 2:44 pm
I think the 2013 FIVE signature change-overs for Macklem-Poloz and Wilkins-Poloz is HCM not HMC.
Thanks Enyaw! You are correct, all the prefixes were HC_ so HCM (not HM_ )
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Re: Signature Change-overs (PREFIXES to look out for)

Post by Nota_phil » Tue Jan 02, 2024 8:50 am

Nota_phil wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 11:27 am
Some new info for the $5.00 (01/02/24)
Key:
* Tougher variety
** Very tough/few reported
+ Yet to be reported on the CPM SNDB or
+++New = very little data or serial number reporting
All data from the CPM SNDB (Canadian Paper Money Serial Number Database):
https://cdnpapermoney.com/forum/

2013 FIVE:
Wilkins-Carney HBG (below 3.62M)*
Macklem-Poloz HBG (above 3.62M)

Macklem-Poloz HCM (below 5.82M)
Wilkins-Poloz HCM (above 5.82M)

Wilkins-Poloz IND (below 8.98M)
Wilkins-Macklem IND (above 8.98M)*

Wilkins-Macklem INK (below 6.28M)
Lane-Macklem INK (above 6.28M)

Lane-Macklem INS (below 3.96M)
Rogers-Maclkem INS (above 3.96M)
[*]+++New

2018 Vertical TEN:
Wilkins-Poloz FFE (below 0.85M)
Wilkins-Macklem FFE (above 0.85M)

Wilkins-Macklem FFK (below 8.18M) ++
Rogers-Maclkem FFK (above 8.19M)
[*]++ Skipped "Lane-Macklem" signature combo

2017 Commemorative TEN:
Wilkins-Poloz CDF (below 3.19M)* Short prefix

2012 TWENTY:
Macklem-Carney FVP (below 8.96M)
Wilkins-Poloz FVP (above 8.96M)*

Wilkins-Poloz FWW (above 3.47M prefix shared with the 2015 Commemorative issue)
Wilkins-Poloz FZT (below 8.01M)++
[*]++ Skipped "Wilkins-Macklem" signature combo
Lane-Macklem FZT (above 8.01M)+
[*]+++New

2015 TWENTY:
Wilkins-Poloz FWW (below 3.47M)*

2012 FIFTY:
Mcklem-Carney GHD (below 4.90M)**
Willkins-Poloz GHD (above 4.90M)

Wilkins-Poloz GME (below 6.25M)
Wilkins-Macklem GME (above 6.25M)

Wilkins-Macklem GMN (below 6.11M)
Lane-Macklem GMM (above 6.11M)

2012 ONE HUNDRED:
Mcklem-Carney FKN (below 1.39M)
Macklem-Poloz FKN (above 8.59M)

Macklem-Poloz GJA (below 3.02M)
Wilkins-Poloz GJA (above 6.97M)

Wilkins-Poloz GKL (below 8.99M)++
[*]++ Skipped "Wilkins-Macklem" signature combo
Lane-Macklem GKL (above 9.00M)
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